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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:43 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:00 am
Posts: 228
Location: Lisboa (née Brightlingsea)
Hi,

Our new house is now finished - phew!
It's an amazing transformation - Anyone need a builder in Costa Caprica area - I have a brilliant contact :)

Slight teething problem - it appears the LPG gas bottle we have (11kg gas) is too small for our 17 litre per minute water heater which needs up to 30 kW of gas energy input

After researching I now know that there is a limit to the rate that a bottle can give out which depends on various things such as ambient temperature and surface area of bottle (latter to let in heat from outside to allow required rate of vaporisation)
e.g. see here http://www.clesse.co.uk/gas-types-vapor ... on-tables/

We will use propane due to its lower boiling temp and hence better performance in winter

Anyway, it seems we have two options:

1. Bigger 45 kg bottles
2. connect together 2 (or even 3 if that is not enough) smaller ones (NB this is NOT the same as having a spare to switch over to but having two wired in in parallel, then you have two connected and two spare.

1. is a PITA since we would then have to build a new enclosure and regs are much more stringent for bigger bottles, i.e. expensive

2. seems to be a great idea since existing storage area is fine.

However I'm not sure if you:

(a) connect the bottles together on the high press side with a manifold before a single regulator, or

(b) connect the bottles together on the low press side after separate regulators on each bottle

Anyone have any knowledge, experience in this?

Cheers

Leigh

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British Consulate list of medical practitioners
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My wife, Teresa Sutherland
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:13 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:55 pm
Posts: 38
Hi
I am not an expert on gas!!!
But , are you sure it is the LPG gassing that is the restriction, I wonder if it is the pipe work or regulator that is causing the flow restriction.
If I were fitting two bottles I would have pigtails from each bottle to a single high flow regulator, maybe another pair coupled up with switch over valve.
Another approach------ can the LPG use of the water heater be reduced??? It should still give sufficient hot water flow???
We have used devices that use a huge amount of LPG without supply issues, only when used continually like big space heaters, you can see the bottles ice up.
Remember I am NOT a gas expert!!!!!!!
Nigel


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:44 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:03 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Nr Obidos
The system that we have (and at least two others I know of) is 2x45kg bottles leading to a selector valve which then goes to the regulator. When the first bottle empties the second bottle automatically comes on line and a red band shows on the selector valve to indicate it is now on the back-up bottle. Turn the selector to the back-up bottle, the red line disappears and this is now the main bottle, giving you time to get a refill delivered. As for the amount of gas that can be supplied through the regulator, this system has worked without incident for 3 years supplying 4 holiday rentals plus our own house, all with instantaneous water heaters. Have to admit I have never experimented with turning all 5 on at once, but considering the number of times we have been booked solid the likelyhood of 3 or 4 going at the same is pretty good. One bottle lasts between 1 month when busy, to 3-4 months when not.
Hope this helps.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:18 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:00 am
Posts: 228
Location: Lisboa (née Brightlingsea)
For those searching this in the future:
17 litre per minute water heater which needs up to 30 kW of gas energy input
We put two small bottles each with a regulator joined by a 'T' that then went into a two stage reducer.
There are simple isolator valves between each bottle and the 'T' but if I forget to isolate these before unclipping only one bottle regulator there is no gas leak through it.
This has powered our water heater fine all winter here near Caparica, got down to -2 or -3 C a couple of mornings
We have three bottles - 1 spare for when the two run out so that we can finish a shower with a quick swapover before zipping down to the garage to buy new ones.
I cant remember the link but it is legal to drive with 2 of these small bottles (and b"gger it if it wasn't :) )
All works fine, very happy not to have had to put in big bottles
Both bottles empty very well
NB this system is NOT the same as 2 bottles with an automatic (or manual) switch over valve - both bottles are used at the same time to give increased max gas flow.

_________________
Psychologist - Fluent English - Lisbon
Professionally registered in Portugal & UK
British Consulate list of medical practitioners
Over 20 years experience
My wife, Teresa Sutherland
teresa.sutherland@clinicadashoras.pt


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